Dear Mr. Ambassador!
Dear Ladies and gentlemen!
I greet all of you quite sincerely and consider my meetings with you, members of the Society of Policy and International Relations very important occasion while being in Austria, Vienna. I express my gratitude to you that you have been interested in meeting to me and gathered here today. It is natural that it is connected with your interest to Azerbaijan.
Mister Ambassador, I thank you for the speech you have just made here. You gave detailed information about Azerbaijan. So, you said part of the words that I would say. But I will find some words to say too. There are still a lot of words to be said. I express my gratitude to you for giving very right information about Azerbaijan and my biography.
Dear ladies and gentlemen!
You know that I have come on the official invitation of the president of Austria. I have been holding meeting since today morning. We have had very useful meetings, negotiations with Mr. President. I have had meetings with the minister of foreign affairs. I had meetings, good negotiations with chairmen of the parliament. I have been in the executive power Vienna. I met and conducted negotiations with federal chancellor. But now I came to meet you. I am in Vienna for the first time; I come to Austria for the first time. So, I have great impressions during this short period. Of course, I have read much about past, culture of Austria from the history. But those I have seen amazed me. I mean beautiful architectural monuments, fine palaces and drawing works in those palaces when I say what I have seen. But it is past of Vienna and Austria. Today of Vienna, Austria is better than past. Because Austria is one of the developed countries in Europe and have gained very great successes. So, I express gratitude to all you- inhabitants of Vienna, citizens of Austria for these successes.
Of course, it is difficult to give the necessary information to you about Azerbaijan during short time. But I will touch upon some matters.
At the beginning of the XIX century Azerbaijan was divided into two parts in the result of the war between Iran and Russia: northern part of Azerbaijan, where we live now passed under the subordination of Russian empire, southern part- the part in Iran was seized by Iranian empire. So Azerbaijan was divided.
As it was said here, at the beginning of XX century, after collapse of Russian empire Azerbaijan declared its sovereignty, founded national republic. But this republic, this state, this government could not live long. After 23 months, the Soviet power, Bolshevik power strengthening in the center of Russia moved forward toward Caucasus and Azerbaijan lost its state independence at the end of April, 1920 and since then it became a union republic in the composition of the Soviet Union. At the end of 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union gained its state independence. We are already independent state for nine years and we could have occupied special place in the world unity.
But Azerbaijan faced with many difficulties still in the composition of the Soviet Union. You know, there were 15 allied republics in the composition of the Soviet Union. Three of these republics, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia are in the Southern Caucasus. We are neighbors with one another, - Armenia, neighbor with Azerbaijan, still in the period of the Soviet power got into an argument in order to occupy Mountainous Garabagh, which is an old and eternal part of Azerbaijan. This argument was in the form of an armed conflict of separate groups at first.
This conflict began by Armenia in order to occupy Mountainous Garabagh. Mountainous Garabagh is red- painted territory in the map you see. After founding the Soviet power Mountainous Garabagh status of autonomous region in Azerbaijan 1923. Since then it has been as autonomous region in the composition of Azerbaijan. History of Mountainous Garabagh and history of Azerbaijan show that Mountainous Garabagh has never belonged to Armenia. But when Mountainous Garabagh was given the status of autonomy in 1923 Armenians living in Mountainous Garabagh were more than Azerbaijanis. So it has given the status of autonomy. The situation was so during last 70 years. It means, 170 thousand inhabitants lived in Mountainous Garabagh when argument began 70 percent was Armenians, 30 percent was Azerbaijanis. Armenia considers that \"Mountainous Garabagh is an Armenian land, so it is necessary to consolidate it to Armenia\".
You see in the map the territory painted red is situated in the center of Azerbaijan. It can not belong to Armenia and it is natural, it can not be consolidated to Armenia.
When this conflict began the Soviet Union was a powerful state and it is natural that it was able to remove conflicts interior of its country. But it is pity that leadership of the Soviet Union, government and personally Mikhail Gorbochov did not take a correct stand. That is, instead of preventing this conflict- it is natural that necessary measures were to be taken that this conflict not to turn out war, not to turn out armed fight, - they took strange position, sometimes were neutral, sometimes defended Armenia, but sometimes wanted Armenia and Azerbaijan speak to each other.
In such condition parliament of Armenia made a decision in 1988 that consolidating Mountainous Garabagh to Armenia. Of course, this decision of the parliament was contrary to the Constitution, laws of the Soviet Union. If these were prevented, there would be no blood, no war. It is a pity that these were not prevented. So, this minor conflict turned out a great war.
The territory of Mountainous Garabagh was occupied completely in 1990 with help of the armed forces of Armenia. All of Azerbaijanis living there were taken out from the territory of Mountainous Garabagh and Mountainous Garabagh was torn out by the subordination of Azerbaijan state. Then there was a war, battles and losses of both this and that side and at last in 1991when the Soviet Union collapsed, but Azerbaijan and Armenia gaining state independence this war became more excited and turned out not only problem of Mountainous Garabagh evidently, but a conflict, war between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Lately because of some reasons- those reasons are that, it is a pity that when Azerbaijan gained sovereignty it faced with the second great problem. It was absence of social- political stability in Azerbaijan.
At that time some forces, armed group in Azerbaijan armed more defending Azerbaijani lands against Armenia and after it some forces- both political forces and separate armed forces tried power fight in Azerbaijan. This power fight broke stability in Azerbaijan.
Power was changed still in the period of the Soviet Union in Azerbaijan in 1990, it was changed again in 1992 and civil war began in Azerbaijan when Armenia occupied lands of Azerbaijan seven years ago in June of 1993- it is natural that armed forces of Armenia enjoyed these reasons very skillfully and went out from the territory of Mountainous Garabagh and began to occupy the regions, territories around it where mere Azerbaijanis had lived and they had no relation with Mountainous Garabagh region.
There is a tragic page in the history of Azerbaijan at that time. These are January accidents in 1990. Perhaps you have information about it, but it is very horrible accident. It consists that as the Soviet government, its leadership did not stand right position in Armenian- Azerbaijani conflict, acted unjustly against Azerbaijan and in the result of these Mountainous Garabagh and some regions around it were occupied by armed forces of Armenia people were against communist regime, the Soviet government, they gathered to the squares, streets in Azerbaijan. People objected to the Soviet government- both in the center, Moscow, and the government in Azerbaijan and required their dismissal. In such situation the Soviet government, Political Bureau of the party and its leader Gorbochov again committed a great crime. That crime is that great troops were brought into Baku during a night in order to avert the masses in Azerbaijan.
I wan to say you, - it has been said here, and as you know my biography- as first secretary of Communist Party I led Azerbaijan for 14 years. I know that great military units of the soviet army were located in the territory of Azerbaijan. In spite of these the Soviet government, Political Bureau, Gorbachov took and brought troops into the town from other provinces of Russia. You know these operations were so important for them that the minister of defense of the country Marshall Yazov, minister of internal affairs Bakatin, first deputy of the minister of state security and a number of other generals entered to Baku together with these troops without informing. It was fired in the streets of Baku, quiet people were killed. There were such cases that a man unaware of everything in his own flat was killed at home- as bullet pierced the window. There were killed 135 men; about 700 men were wounded at that night. All of these men are quiet people, doing nothing bad, people who are in the streets at that time.
It is natural that this great crime caused greater discontent against the Soviet power, communist regime in Azerbaijan. At that time head of Azerbaijan Communist Party was escaped to Moscow by military planes of Russia, the Soviet Union. Because people were very angry to him. So, power was changed.
But this internal situation did not become stable in Azerbaijan. Again I say the reason of this war was from one hand injustice against Azerbaijan, Armenian armed forces occupying some part of the territory of Azerbaijan, from other hand separate forces enjoying this confusion within Azerbaijan fighting for power. In the result power in Azerbaijan changed again in February of 1992.
That is to say, the man who was head of Azerbaijan Communist Party and declared president while the Soviet Union collapsed and others were dismissed ran to Moscow.
There was anarchy in Azerbaijan for three- four months. Then in June of 1992 there was held elections and representatives of the popular front, who came from among the masses won in these elections, were elected president. But there was not unity among them again; there was again internal power struggle and enjoying these armed forces of Armenia moved more.
In the result of the civil war within Azerbaijan in June of 1993 Armenian armed forces enjoying this condition managed to occupy the territories of Azerbaijan more. In the result of it territories around Mountainous Garabagh, painted with red color in the map were occupied by armed forces of Armenia. All these territories include 20 percent of Azerbaijan territory, more than one million Azerbaijan were taken out from this territory, and this war went on.
People invited me to Baku in 1993 while starting civil war in Azerbaijan. My biography was said here. But I want to say two moments that, I left Communist Party, refused while living in Moscow as the Soviet government, Political Bureau brought the soviet troops into Azerbaijan. After it I lived in Moscow for some time and returned to Azerbaijan. But the leadership of the Soviet Union in Moscow and the leadership of communist party of Azerbaijan did not allow me living in Baku. So I went to Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic. As you see in the map it is also Azerbaijani land, but from point of view of territory it was separated from the main territory of Azerbaijan with the territory of Armenia. It is the result of that injustice made in 1920. At that time the Soviet government drew the map so.
I was born there, lived there for three years. Nakhchivan was in blockade, there was hard condition, but I was obliged to live there.
People required me in 1993. I came to Baku. It was necessary both to normalize internal situation and to defend the lands. There was a terrible war. It was not very easy to normalize the internal situation. Because some armed forces tried to coup d`etat in Azerbaijan again in October of 1994. But we prevented it. At this time people stood up and defended the president, the state. After 6 months great armed forces wanted to overthrow the government in Azerbaijan and to terrorize against the president of Azerbaijan with participation, help of some special service bodies of foreign countries. It was also prevented. So, after 1995 internal stability could be made in Azerbaijan.
It is natural that in such situation - as I said Azerbaijan had lost those lands - but in May of 1994 we held negotiations with Armenia and made such decision to stop the war. We signed an agreement about ceasefire regime for the purpose of setting the matter not by war, but by peace. There is not war, battles for six years. But we haven`t achieved peace yet. Minsk group of OSCE- OSCE established an organization named Minsk group in 1992- engage in settling the matter. Co- chairmen of Minsk group are Russia, the United States of America, and France. Co- chairmen did much, were in the region, held negotiations, learned positions of Azerbaijan, Armenia and achieved some peace through their representatives during these years. But it wasn`t possible to settle the problem. Because Armenia takes non- constructive position, as occupied twenty percent of Azerbaijan lands,- uses its advantage that \"I have occupied these lands, the demand made should be settled\". The demand consists that Armenia requires giving independence status to Mountainous Garabagh.
This matter has been discussed in Budapest top meeting of OSCE in 1994, in Lisbon top meeting of OSCE in December of 1996. At that time some versions appeared for settling that matter with peace way. We accepted some of those versions, but Armenia did not accept. If one of those versions was accepted in 1997, then we could achieve peace really and normalize the situation gradually. But Armenia did not accept those versions. As you know, there was change of government in Armenia in February, at the beginning of 1998. The president Levon Ter- Petrosyan applied for retirement due to divergence of opinion in these matters. After him there was a process of new president elections in Armenia. So we lost 1998 year, we could do nothing. Minsk group of OSCE told us every time to wait, creating any condition after new presidential elections in Armenia.
As there was not any result in 1999, direct negotiations began between the president of Armenia Robert Kocharyan and me, the president of Azerbaijan Republic. We began these negotiations in Washington in April. After it we met, spoke for some times- twice in Geneva, once in Yalta, once in the border of Armenia- Azerbaijan, in the territory of Nakhchivan. During these negotiations we could move forward a little and the reason of it was that both sides, that is the president of Armenia and the president of Azerbaijan agreed to make some compromises in this matter. These compromises are more difficult, harder compromises both for Armenia and Azerbaijan. But we could make such decision.
You know that a terror incident occurred in the parliament in October of 1999. The chairman of the parliament, prime minister and some deputies were killed, shot in the building of the parliament and internal situation tightened in Armenia. It is natural that we could not hold negotiations n such situation.
We tried to restore these negotiations again in Istanbul top meeting of OSCE. Co- chairmen, the president of America Bill Clinton, the president of FranceJacque Shirak, the president of Russia came there. But the president of Russia went away, we did not meet him. Both president Kocharyan and I met two presidents and the minister of foreign affairs of Russia and got supports to the compromise agreement. But then time passed, we could not get any result again.
So, the conflict has not been settled yet. Territorial integrity of Azerbaijan has broken down. 20 percent of Azerbaijani territory is under the occupation of the armed forces of Armenia. More than one million Azerbaijanis derived from occupied lands live in the tents in the different regions of our country- they are shown with points in the map. Because we have not other place to accommodate these people. We have accommodated them by freeing schools, kindergartens. We have accommodated most of them in railway trains, rest houses. But it also is not enough. Most of refugees live in tents.
Just imagine, for instance, people live in tents for six- seven years. Foreign representatives visiting there see a very terrible scene and coming back shed tears. Because, really, it is impossible to meet such a terrible scene in the world. For example, a five- years old child has not seen anything except a tent, he hasn`t seen house, city, village, and lives under the tent. We are such hard condition.
We want the matter to be settled in peace way. We are not supporters of war and I state it in presence of you today. But Armenian side should stand constructive position about it that the matter can be settled in peace way. Stating these to you I want to say that I am optimist. Although it is very difficult to us, I suppose, we will achieve to settle this problem in peace way. But I consider that direct meetings of two presidents, presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan should be continued again. At the same time Minsk group OSCE should increase its activity and OSCE should increase its activity.
You know, Austria is chairman of OSCE this year. That`s why I gave wide information about this matter in my talks and gave offers today. Now the minister of foreign affairs of Austria is in the post of chairman of OSCE. He will be in the region on 16- 17 of this month and will hold negotiations both in America and in Azerbaijan. We hope how will result these negotiations. However we cherish great hopes to the Minsk group of OSCE. Three great states lead the Minsk group- the United States of America, Russia, France. If all these states come to an opinion, use international influence, of course, it is possible to settle this conflict.
I want to give some other information about Azerbaijan. Having gained state independence since 1991 Azerbaijan is in the democratic way. There is a process of democratic, juridical, world state building in Azerbaijan. It is true, the information I have just given you- breaking stability within Azerbaijan, tries to coup d`etat and changing power for several times, of course, did not allow to conduct this process properly. But after securing internal social- political stability in 1995 we adopted the first democratic Constitution of Azerbaijan, parliament elections and in 1998 presidential election were held before in 1993 and then 1998. All democratic institutions have been ensured at us. Freedom of press, freedom of speech, and freedom of conscience- all these have been ensured. It has been secured both in Constitution and carried out practically. We are going in the way of market economy, conduct reforms.
For example, we privatized lands and gave them to peasants two years ago. We have not still had governmental sector, collective farms, state farms in the agriculture, peasants have got their lands and use. We see its positive results.
Privatization program is carried out in other fields of economy. For example, trade has been privatized 98 percent, or 98 percent of agriculture is in private sector, about 70 percent transport is in private sector and most of other service fields, infrastructure are in private sector. That is to say using values of Europe, practices of the countries developed economically in the world we develop our economy.
Beginning from 1990 Azerbaijan has passed both political and economical crisis. The economical crisis was that Azerbaijan declined every year. Production of agriculture, interior product decreased about 20-25 percent every year. Inflation increased to the highest degree. We prevented these, created stability in 1995. We abolished inflation entirely and prevented the economy from falling.
Our economy has been developing since 1996. Interior product increases 4-5-6 percent on average. For example, it increased 7 percent. It increased about 7 percent in the first half of this year, production of agriculture increases about 3 percent, industrial production increases 3 percent and there is development in all other fields. Budget is performed completely.
You know that salaries or pensions are not paid for months as budget is not performed in most countries of CIC. We have prevented these, salaries, pensions- all are paid. These are the results of economical reforms we carried out from one hand, from other hand it is the result of foreign investment being involved to Azerbaijan.
Dear Ambassador stated here that, Azerbaijan has rich natural resources. It has rich land, rich agricultural potential, great industrial potential and very rich underground resources- oil, gas and other underground riches.
You know that Azerbaijan is the oldest oil country. Still in 1848 oil by industrial way was got in Azerbaijan for the first time in the world. For example: oil by industrial way was got the United States of America about six years after Baku, Azerbaijan and rendered services to the development of oil industry here. Then all oil industry of Azerbaijan was seized by the Soviet government and all served to the government.
Now after gaining state independence all these belong to the independent Azerbaijan state. That`s why we settle our problems ourselves and invited oil companies of foreign countries possessing high engineering, technology, allocation to Azerbaijan in order to use rich oil and gas fields fruitfully and to develop the economy. A great agreement was signed in September of 1994 for the first time. Creating consortium together with 11 European and American companies there was signed contract with State Oil Company of Azerbaijan. According to this contract investment in the amount of 8 billion dollars should be put and 60 million ton oil, more should be produced.
I can say that this contract is carried out. We have created two oil pipelines in order to export produced oil to the world markets: the first Baku- Novorossiysk, that is, to the port of Novorossiysk of Russia in Black Sea, the second Baku- Supsa, to the port of Georgia in Black Sea. Produced oil is exported by these two oil pipelines to the world markets. But great oil is expected in Azerbaijan. The first contract was signed in 1994. Then 19 contracts were signed. We perform joint works together with 32 great oil companies belonging 14 states and each contract has its perspective. About 60 billion dollars investment should be come to Azerbaijan during 30 years on all these contracts. Of course, oil production will reach not 60 million ton, but 100-200 million ton.
So, we have been carrying out works about great export oil pipeline. This oil pipeline will lie from Baku to Georgia, Tbilisi, from Georgia to the territory of Turkey, to Ceyhan port of Turkey in Mediterranean Sea. This is about 2 thousand kilometer. More than 1000 kilometers of it is in the territory of Turkey, 400-500 kilometers is in the territory of Azerbaijan, the rest of it is in the territories of Georgia.
Some were supporters of the project of the main oil export pipeline of Baku- Tbilisi- Ceyhan, but some were not supporters.
At last we signed this contract in Istanbul in November of last year. The president of Turkey Republic, the president of Azerbaijan Republic, the president of Georgia, the president of Kazakhstan Republic signed the contract. Together with us, Mr. Bill Clinton, the president of the United States of America, who ensured realizing this contract, signed this contract. It is natural that, then this contract had to be confirmed in the parliament and Turkey parliament has already confirmed this contract. Now the consortium begins to act practically and in order to construct this oil pipeline a new consortium- construction consortium of oil pipeline will be formed and investment in the amount of 2 billion 200 million dollars should be put here. This oil pipeline should be constructed and got ready during three- four years.
Now we have opened great gas fields besides oil. Gas was produced in Azerbaijan in past and Azerbaijan provided itself with gas. But those gas fields became old. We signed another contract with some companies- BP, \"Amoko\", \"Statoil\" and other companies. It the second contract and it is about \"Shahdeniz\" field in Caspian Sea. We called it \"Shahdeniz\". It is simple symbolic thing. We have opened great gas fields there. There is at least one billion cub meters, perhaps more gas reserve. More gas is expected in other places. So we already hold negotiations about exporting gas to the world markets want to take the necessary measures.
So, we have performed great works with participation of great companies of the world, the world unity in these rich oil and gas fields and these works have fine future. But now foreign investments come to other sectors of Azerbaijan and are being interested. Now the second stage of privatization program of Azerbaijan is begun to be carried out. Great industrial institutions will be privatized. We wish and it reflected in the law we adopted that every foreign citizen, foreign company can come to Azerbaijan and participate in the privatization in Azerbaijan and can put the necessary capital and do works.
We have adopted a lot of laws for foreign capital coming to Azerbaijan and those laws allow foreign investors coming to Azerbaijan, getting profit by putting investment.
We know that there are some necessary terms for foreign investors of Europe and America coming to any country, especially to the countries belonging to the USSR. The first of it is social-political stability. We have maintained it in Azerbaijan. Although Armenian- Azerbaijan conflict has not been settled yet, more than one million citizens live in the condition of refugees in the tents, but have maintained social-political stability within Azerbaijan.
The second term is the necessary terms that these are giving necessary maintenances to the investors, liberal zing trade, generally liberalizing economy all these have been provided. All other terms too. That`s why capital enters to Azerbaijan now.
The most of the investment came to the oil sector two years ago, but 60 percent of the capital came to non-oil sector, 40 percent come to the oil sector. It shows that foreign capital comes not only to oil sector but also other sector so, economical opportunities of Azerbaijan are great and its future is well.
As dear Ambassador said, Azerbaijan has very important geographical-strategic position. That is to say Azerbaijan is a very important place between East and West, Asia and Europe, a country situating on the shore of Caspian Sea, in the south of Caucasus, possessing great opportunities, we have borders with Iran in the south, Russia in the north. We have border with Turkey in a little distance. Our border with Armenia has broken, we have border with Georgia.
Now most countries of the world show interest to Caucasus. There is some rivalry among separate countries in the territory of Azerbaijan. But there are a lot of military bases of Russia in the territory of Armenia and it has very big arms-SS-300 rockets, \"Skad\" plants, MIG- 29 and other modern planes. But we did not allow it. Because we`re independent country. Armed forces of other country can not be in the territory of our state.
The thing hardening our condition is that, for example, it was appeared in 1997 that the ministry of defense of Russia gave arms and Armenia illegally. It is natural that Mafiosi groups act here. These are arms of the government. But separate men earn money here probably. Of course, it makes the condition in the region more terrible.
Look at that map. You can see there, for example, rockets, arms, others in Armenia can repulse which points, reach which points in Caucasus and especially in Azerbaijan. It is natural that it makes the situation in Southern Caucasus complicated. But we want peace, safety, be established in Southern Caucasus. Southern Caucasus assumes great importance not only to Southern Caucasus, but to all European - Asian countries. That`s why if peace is created between Azerbaijan and Armenia, three Southern Caucasus countries- Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan can collaborate very usefully and it is natural that a pact can be formed in order great states to maintain their interests in Southern Caucasus and to maintain peace, safety, security in Southern Caucasus.
Last year, in Istanbul top meeting of OSCE I offered to create such a pact and addressed to Russia, America, European countries, Turkey and other countries to gather and create such a security pact. Safety in Southern Caucasus, abolishing conflicts really are very important for Russia, it is important to other countries covering Caucasus, and Europe. We haven`t achieved it yet. I suppose done works and especially development of economy will maintain getting some achievements in this field too.
I stated that Azerbaijan is a country, situating in crossway of Asia and Europe, East and West. Perpetuating its old, national traditions Azerbaijan have been using values of Europe, the world human values for two centuries. Being Moslem country according to the national source, protecting its national moral values Azerbaijan at the same time, began to appropriate values of Europe, human values since XIX century. Synthesis of European values, world values with values of our country has resulted very well in Azerbaijan. These were basis for founding juridical, world, democratic state in Azerbaijan. Now we are going on this way. Going on this way we want to integrate to the West, Europe more, we want to get use of European, world values more. That`s why we are on the eve of entering European Council now.
You know, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia have been admitted candidate to European Council for four years. We have been collaborating with European Council for four years. Georgia was full, real member of European Council a year ago. But this year on 28th of last month Parliament Assembly of European Council made a decision to admit Azerbaijan and Armenia to European Council together. We appreciate it highly and consider that European countries, the countries including European Council show great care, attention to Azerbaijan.
But at the same time we understand that while entering European Council we take new additional obligations and duties. We know how hard, difficult duties they are. Because sometimes it is considered in Europe and America that if we declared ourselves a democratic state we must be full democratic immediately. That is to say, as France, Austria or America Azerbaijan also should be so democratic, or it should be in other CIC countries too. It is natural that it is not real. Because you, Austrians have gone toward democracy for ages, you have gone on this way for decades. You haven`t been in the environment of democracy during one, five, ten years. The main issue is to go on this way and consider this way strategic way. So entering to European Council we take requirements of European Council that we can carry out those achievements during shorter time than European countries achieved. I suppose that now Committee of Ministers of European Council will look through this issue and we will be able to be full member of European Council. I assure that we will worthy of membership to European Council.
The main issue standing before Azerbaijan state now is to protect state independence, keep it and make it long- lived. We don`t want to lose our national freedom, state independence. We want to live as an independent state. We want our people to be free. We want to be owner of our fate, our country and it is natural to set useful mutual relations with all countries, set friendship relations with all countries, set peace relations with all countries. We are advocates of peace. We are advocates of peace both in Southern Caucasus, in Caucasus and in the whole world. Because XX century already ending, showed how many blows stricken to the mankind with these wars. Everybody should come to a conclusion.
We lead this policy, being in the eve of XXI century, third thousand years and we`ll go with this policy in XXI century.
I express my gratitude to you for your attention. If you have questions I am ready to answer them.